April 13, 2024

Welcome to the most recent episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

At the moment, we’re thrilled to have Johannes Scholl on the present, who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS, an modern digital actuality train system that mixes immersive gaming experiences with bodily health. Johannes and his group have been pushing the boundaries of VR health, introducing a novel strategy to understanding that has captured the eye of health lovers and tech lovers alike. We will’t look forward to Johannes to share his insights and the story behind ICAROS with you.

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Episode 11 – ICAROS

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that can revolutionize the best way the world will play sports activities, work out and get match. Together with your hosts, preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field VR, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR fitness center and produce many years of expertise from creating among the largest health expertise firms on the earth. They’re bringing collectively one of the best and brightest minds that can assist you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. At the moment now we have Johannes Scholl on the present who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS. With a mission to empower people to attain their well being and health targets via using leading edge expertise and immersive gaming experiences. Johannes, thanks a lot for being right here with us.

Johannes Scholl: Thanks for having me, and I look ahead to this dialog with you guys.

Preston Lewis: So to kick it off, we wanna know what obtained you into VR and health within the first place? Type of how did your [00:01:00] private pursuits lead you right here?

Johannes Scholl: In order you possibly can think about, it’s fairly of an extended story, however I’ll attempt to make an extended story quick. I studied industrial design. So did my co-founder. And once I was nonetheless at college, I all the time knew that when I’d begin engaged on my grasp’s thesis, it ought to be one thing round health. And that was additionally across the time once I met my co-founder Michael, who was already operating a design company down in Munich.

And I used to be working with him and I’ve informed him about my concept and I stated, “hey, you understand what? I need to do one thing modern. I need to do one thing particular round health.” And he stated, “that’s cool, I want to assist you right here, however let’s not deliver the bench press 2.0 or one thing. Let’s deliver one thing actually modern, that the health trade hasn’t seen earlier than.” He’s into health, we’re each into industrial design, and we stated, “okay, what’s essentially the most motivating health expertise that we may consider?”

And we stated, ” how would it not be if we may create the feeling of flying [00:02:00] while doing all your exercise?” As a result of we figured that having the ability to fly is a mankind’s dream, irrespective of the place on the planet. Like, everyone has dreamt of this as soon as, proper? So we got here up with this primary idea and the enjoyable factor actually is that this all befell earlier than digital actuality was a factor. It was earlier than Oculus. It was earlier than Oculus first Kickstarter marketing campaign. Nonetheless we had the concept if this could work, it may solely work with digital actuality, proper? So in the long run, what we created again then was the long run idea of what we thought how health train may look in twenty 5 years from now.

Little did we all know that only a couple months later, digital actuality did grew to become a factor, and t hat’s the place all the story began actually.

Ryan DeLuca: So many individuals once they first consider like, “oh, what may you do with, like, you understand, gaming and health?” And the very first thing is, like, actually, actually primary stuff. Like, “oh, you would be having a private coach, or you would do that stuff you used to do in a standard fitness center, however now in a sport or in VR.” Which simply feels just like the least [00:03:00] artistic strategy to do it. Like, that is this entire new strategy to do issues. Why would you wanna do bench press 2.0? Like, no one needs to bench press. You understand? Even those that say they like bench urgent, they in all probability don’t actually find it irresistible that a lot in comparison with different issues. Why would you wanna try this versus, like, thrilling sport and flying in VR?

Johannes Scholl: The factor was we wished to create a complete expertise and I feel that sounds acquainted to you. And after we began, we had this entire freedom of concepts, you understand? We had been pondering so freely, as a result of there was no stress on us. We didn’t consider it as a enterprise within the very first place. As a result of as I stated, we had been pondering like that is going to occur in twenty years from now. The enjoyable factor actually is when the primary headsets got here out, particularly the commercially accessible headsets. For instance, the Samsung Gear VR. If you happen to bear in mind? The place you probably did put your smartphone in, and you then would have it as a VR display screen. Samsung was one in every of our very first prospects. They purchased a few ICAROS items to set them up of their pop-up shops that they had been opening all throughout Europe to demo their new expertise.

I assume one of many first [00:04:00] peripherals for digital actuality that you would get. So that they outfitted all the pop-up shops with our machines to demo their very own expertise. And that was nice. And that’s additionally why I preach that timing is such an necessary issue if you launch a brand new product, launch a brand new concept. And we stood on the station earlier than the hype practice arrived and we simply needed to bounce onto it, and that basically helped us very a lot to get going.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. And also you kinda alluded to it, the flying, proper? However inform us about your product. What precisely is ICAROS? What’s the expertise like? What makes it particular and why’d you resolve to create it this fashion?

Johannes Scholl: It grew to become a bit tougher to clarify within the final couple of years, due to course our portfolio has grown and we now have a spread of merchandise. I assume the one the place every little thing began with, and nonetheless the expertise that we’re most well-known for, is the mix of a core exercise and a digital actuality flying expertise.

So let me begin with that. And principally, it’s a rig that you’d enter in a plank-like place. However you [00:05:00] wouldn’t simply lay on there, however you’ll be capable to transfer round, really, and by shifting your physique weight forwards and backwards and to the left and proper, you’ll be able to maneuver that factor. And we’re detecting your motions on the gadget with movement sensors. And in the long run, we’re transferring your motions on the gadget into digital actuality gameplay.

So it might grow to be, say a Superman simulator, no matter you might be doing bodily on the gadget you’re doing in digital actuality. And it provides you a fairly intense core exercise, fairly intense shoulder exercise. Nevertheless it is not going to solely enhance, like, your muscle power, however it would additionally enhance your sense for steadiness. Your coordination, your response, performance of your core. So actually, it’s about say, mind-muscle connection. That’s why it’s additionally utilized in remedy and stuff like that. Perhaps we communicate extra about that later. So you might be in that planking place carrying your headset, along with your motions on the gadget. You’re controlling the gameplay. Most of it’s about flying, but it surely doesn’t essentially must be flying; there’s additionally [00:06:00] underwater experiences, stuff like that.

I feel for me essentially the most spectacular ones, one is our digital actuality multiplayer. It’s known as ICARACE. So that may be a futuristic racing sport the place you’ll fly a spaceship and you’ll race different pilots, as we name them, from possibly even different international locations, different components on the earth, dwell in digital actuality. And that may be a very intense expertise. And people races, they final for ten minutes, proper about, and it’s a tricky one. Yearly now we have world championships the place we invite one of the best pilots which have certified within the on-line pre-season, after which we put them on stage, allow them to race one another.

After which one other one, which I imagine could be very spectacular. We began engaged on these type of experiences two years in the past, proper about. We’ve got a cooperation with one other firm right here from Munich, they’re known as Actuality Maps. They offered us with panorama knowledge that they create utilizing photogrammetry. And for instance, now we have now digitalized a few of [00:07:00] essentially the most iconic sceneries within the Alps. Like now we have the Dolomites, or now we have components of the Swiss Alps or the German Alps. And you may actually undergo these type of landscapes. We’ve got a Wingsuit simulator in there, racetracks, all this enjoyable stuff.

And you may expertise this in actual locations. Identical to Google Earth, however on a better high quality degree. There’s much more, however that’s type of what’s occurring in digital actuality if you find yourself one of many ICAROS units.

Ryan DeLuca: Nicely, we talked about the place your product is as we speak, and naturally, persevering with to work and make it even higher, but it surely’s such an thrilling factor. Clearly you didn’t begin there, if you first began with the primary model to as we speak. What kind of learnings did you may have from the start, that if you happen to may return to your self again in these days, you’ll inform your self?

Johannes Scholl: Many, many various ones. However, let me attempt with among the most necessary ones for me.

So first, as I stated, my co-founder and I we’re each industrial designers. We’re each artistic minds, which is an effective factor and likewise a nasty factor. What I all the time attempt is, I attempt to visualize concepts very early, after which we additionally attempt to [00:08:00] prototype concepts as quickly as attainable to have the ability to check them. And so, stroll the stroll, proper? No matter you visualize would possibly flip right into a actuality at one level, it could not, but when you don’t visualize it, if you don’t construct, it is not going to occur in any respect. In order that’s for certain.

After we began off first, and I feel that was additionally with many different gamers within the subject of digital actuality, particularly. No one actually knew the place it might be going, the place it was heading. From our DNA, we knew that we wished to mix health and gaming.

With the primary video games we constructed, we didn’t have any expertise. We didn’t have any person suggestions. So I imply, it’s necessary to know who’s the person, who’s the shopper? Who’s the person. Generally that’s the identical particular person. Generally it’s not the identical particular person, and you should have a buyer and you should have an finish person.

What do they count on from you? It’s that small line between getting person suggestions, implementing person suggestions, and listening to the customers. And generally additionally to not take heed to them and do your individual factor, as a result of possibly you understand [00:09:00] higher and you understand what’s forward, you understand, you’re one step forward of them.

So I feel that’s a fantastic line between implementing person suggestions and, on the identical time, be true to your self, as a result of who got here up with that idea? You probably did. So imagine in your self as nicely. Nevertheless, it actually comes right down to what I imagine product market match. That’s for certain. You may have the fanciest concepts, if the product is not going to work within the designated atmosphere, you’ll not have a enterprise. Proper? I feel that was one thing, particularly within the first two, three years or so, the place we additionally needed to study so much. Like, who’s the shopper? Who’re we constructing it for? In what approach is it going for use? The place will or not it’s most helpful? The place will it actually make a distinction?

How can we remedy the issues that our buyer has and stuff like that. That is quite common, however nonetheless it’s one thing that you need to study at the start. And the opposite factor, I feel that you understand very nicely, since you did do that very nicely if you began, and I additionally suppose that we didn’t do the worst job right here, was being loud. And being [00:10:00] acknowledged and being, like, far and wide. And that’s one thing the place I feel we additionally did a very good job. So if you begin one thing new, you need to be, you need to be loud, proper? Go for the awards, go for the commerce reveals, go for the media, go for the bloggers, go for social media, go for… take no matter you possibly can take to guarantee that individuals will take discover.

I bear in mind after we first went to CES, we had been down within the Sands Expo at Eureka Park. And again then it was, you had these ten by ten cubicles. Tremendous small, like startup zoo, type of, tremendous vibrant ambiance, very crowded. And we introduced the ICAROS gadget, the primary professional gadget for the very first time. And the sales space was packed, and we had press, and media, and plenty of stuff was occurring. For us, it was an incredible expertise. The primary present within the US, and all of this buzz occurring. And we took so much out of it.

Nevertheless, one yr later we went to the identical place, Eureka Park, identical ten by ten cubicles. And the one distinction was that this time we had [00:11:00] a correct video on YouTube and on social media, like Fb, again then it was. And it modified every little thing. This time we had, inside one week, we had greater than thirty million views on our video. And it obtained viral and it was Mashable, and Bored Panda, and USA At the moment, and also you identify it. It was the identical product, was the identical present, identical individuals. The one distinction was that our preparations had been so much higher this time. Then additionally you bought luck and timing and stuff like that. That’s additionally studying. It’s important to be loud, you need to be current, however you additionally have to be ready to make one thing out of it. However in the end, this story additionally has a draw back, as a result of that was, I imagine, 2017? And I imply, what does CES stand for? It stands for Shopper Digital Present.

Electronics, sure. Present, sure. Shopper, no. We solely had this huge ICAROS promo that you’d purchase for 9 thousand again then. So, we acquired, I don’t know, seven, eight thousand emails, and we [00:12:00] had been three individuals. And we had been doing evening shifts simply to reply these emails. And you may think about that ninety % of these requests had been, like, “okay, can I get this for my lounge?”

And we’re like, “nicely, sure you possibly can, but it surely’s ten grand.” So, it actually helped us to drive substantial enterprise again then. Nonetheless these days with all, now we have the patron vary in line, and the web store and every little thing. So if you happen to would have the identical thirty million video views and 7 thousand emails, we may make much more out of it. However that’s type of the tales you possibly can inform later.

Preston Lewis: For higher or for worse, as pioneers, we’re paying the innovation tax, proper?

Somebody’s gotta do it, gotta go on the market and blaze the path. And so we’re actually appreciative to others that try this. You guys included, as a result of after we began Black Field in 2016, we might say the time period “VR health”, and their eyes would glaze over and so they’d be tremendous confused. They didn’t perceive. And so simply because ICAROS, and doubtless Virtuix and loads of these individuals have been within the sport so lengthy with these viral movies, and [00:13:00] taking the dangers. It’s clearly been costly initially, but it surely’s pushed all the trade ahead.

So, undoubtedly cool that you simply guys did that.

Johannes Scholl: I briefly talked about earlier, I feel that was earlier than the digital camera was rolling. We simply obtained again from FIBO in Cologne a pair weeks in the past. I imply, that’s one of many largest health and physique constructing reveals on the earth. This yr that they had a chosen space for XR gaming, digital actuality, eSports health. 5 years in the past, unthinkable. Unthinkable. And now you possibly can see that. I feel that’s very cool. It’s nice that the organizers acknowledge the potential and likewise that they do one thing out of it. And now you possibly can actually really feel the assist of the trade and likewise the acceptance on the opposite aspect, which is simply as necessary. You can’t solely simply push expertise after which look forward to it. That’s not the way it works. So that you want the acceptance too. We all know that there’s potential in utilizing digital actuality or gamification typically in health. The exercises are extra fascinating, you may make them more practical.

You may actually make them addictive, like an eSports expertise. In a great way.

Preston Lewis: [00:14:00] You simply made me suppose that, you would nearly have, a triathlon-style occasion. Kinda like you may have with biking, swimming, operating, the place it might be, Black Field exercise, ICAROS flying, a Virtuix operating expertise. The place you would really do that, triathlon, multi-event kind of an expertise. However with this futuristic expertise.

Johannes Scholl: I completely see this and we must always speak about this, as a result of I do know that many individuals on the market would love being part of this. I feel that’s additionally a imaginative and prescient, like having these XR Olympics factor, type of, occurring.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s far more thrilling. There’s so many issues you are able to do in these loopy fantasy worlds you couldn’t do in a real-life triathlon. And extra accessible and might apply from house. Like, there’s so many cool components that, I imply, that’s for certain coming. The superb factor is individuals say, “oh, VR, like, I don’t need that. It’s this dystopian concept and I’m all on my own in my headset.” The place it’s, like, the precise reverse is true. Like, you possibly can have essentially the most social expertise with different individuals. And even simply, like, the Zwift-style stuff, it’s like social health and be capable to be there with different individuals. And the enjoyable, aggressive and cooperative. And eSports as we’ve seen, like, it might be essentially the most social factor, which [00:15:00] the social a part of it’s actually what drives how a lot you care about it and the which means behind the actions.

So that you talked about, you bought suggestions at among the commerce reveals and clearly from the press. What suggestions have you ever acquired from those that have used your product, and, you understand, any attention-grabbing tales or something that’s stunning that got here out of that?

Johannes Scholl: We’ve all the time been working not solely within the health trade, but additionally within the medical well being rehabilitation and remedy world. And now we have strengthened that work. And simply within the final couple of months now we have put in the primary ICAROS well being items, that’s our flagship mannequin, in hospitals, for instance. And in German rehabilitation hospitals. And it’s simply nice to get suggestions from sufferers utilizing our units, as a result of for them digital actuality typically, and I feel our units particularly, can actually be a sport changer. When you’ve got an individual that will increase their strolling pace considerably after a stroke, via utilizing ICAROS units, discount of spasms, improve of total physique composition, general happiness of their life and having a [00:16:00] joyful rehabilitation expertise. As a result of if you happen to’re going to rehab, this generally is a very irritating expertise for you, possibly generally with little progress, lack of motivation, ache and every little thing that’s associated to it.

And I imply, if you happen to ask me for the best tales to inform, I’ll let you know affected person tales. Particular person success tales of sufferers. Whether or not it’s orthopedic, decrease again ache or if it’s neurologic sufferers. That’s one thing very rewarding to see.

After which final however not least, within the final years and now once more after Covid, now we have put in a few of our items in among the coolest locations on Earth. Like the highest notch medical retreats, the excessive finish 5 star lodges. Like, the locations the place the wealthy and the well-known go. You see the skilled athletes and the celebrities understanding with it. If you happen to look again a few years and also you stated, “you turned this into actuality”, that’s an incredible story.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. I imply, after we began Black Field VR, loads of it was primarily based on the truth that most individuals give up their health packages, proper? The adherence [00:17:00] to a health program is simply dismal throughout the board. As a result of why? It’s boring, it’s not very participating, loads of occasions it’s not very social, it hurts. You understand, possibly you don’t have entry to a fitness center or no matter. And so, it’s attention-grabbing as a result of it’s the identical factor with rehabilitation, proper? Folks go in, they get a surgical procedure, and we hear it on a regular basis from among the hospitals we talked to within the early days, however they principally stated, you understand, “not less than fifty % of individuals will drop out.” If you happen to’re not adhering to a health program, it’s simply dangerous in your common well being, proper? It’s simply you’re not gonna be as match, you’re not gonna get the cognitive advantages and all these different superb issues that include understanding recurrently.

However in rehabilitation, it’s even worse, proper? As a result of if you happen to get a surgical procedure and if you happen to don’t adhere to a program, you possibly can now not bend your knee, possibly. You may now not prolong your arm, proper? In order that’s, I feel the cool factor about this expertise throughout the board, whether or not it’s from health or rehab, such as you’re speaking about. Is that gamification and these sport mechanics paired with these immersive applied sciences have the power to drastically [00:18:00] improve that adherence degree via the enjoyable, and the epicness and engagement. And as you each have talked about, having the potential to be far more social as nicely, so.

Johannes Scholl: The social side. We’re in a position to customise the expertise and to individualize the exercise and create a personalized rehabilitation journey. We’ve got simply launched the software program that is known as ICAROS N.E.X.T., Neuro Expertise Coaching, the place you as a affected person would enter the gadget for the primary time and you’re going to get your first, like, preset check to search out out what’s your present health degree. And from that time on, you should have personalized particular person race tracks that will be designed only for you primarily based in your private skillset. After which the higher you grow to be, the harder, the tougher it would get. So it would continuously push you to the sting of your consolation zone. After which over time we’ll see your progress, your particular person progress, which you can additionally evaluate to others.

However in the long run, it’s your journey and you may be happy with your self and your progress. And the software program, it would all the time be as match as you might be and [00:19:00] it would all the time deliver you to your most and attempt to get one of the best out of you. And, I imply, there’s much more of potential in gamification typically, too. It’s not simply that it’s extra enjoyable. If you happen to construct a very good sport that’s given, however then what else are you able to do with it? Like actually driving the effectiveness of every session. That’s one thing we’re wanting into so much proper now. And it’s additionally for the long run software program improvement, like particular person exercises, plans, rehabilitation journeys. That’s one thing we’re undoubtedly wanting into so much.

Ryan DeLuca: Nobody ever says they’re excited to go to rehab. You understand? Isn’t that the Amy Winehouse track? It’s like, “they tried to make me go to rehab, however I stated, no, no, no.”

However yeah. However no one’s ever like, “what do you may have occurring as we speak?” It’s like, “I’m gonna rehab, I’m so excited. It’s rehab day.” You understand? I imply, what we take into consideration so much is so many issues in life that you simply need to do, that it is best to do, proper?

Since you ought to do it. You need to learn these books. You need to exercise, clearly, it is best to eat, you understand, the correct meals. It’s important to, like, power your self to do it. Or do some type of, like, incentive to make it so that you do it. Like, your physician’s gonna yell at you if you happen to [00:20:00] don’t do the rehab.

However, you understand, you go to regular rehab and clearly, like we talked about the identical as like a exercise, like, it’s not enjoyable. It’s time consuming. It’s painful. You don’t see instant outcomes, you understand? You don’t instantly go in there and see one thing. The place with video games you possibly can see instant outcomes. Like, you simply hit a brand new document on this or attain this new degree, and also you’re getting the rewards, and pleasure and there’s simply so many issues you would do.

What we actually suppose is, it’s much less about to get individuals simply do what they know they need to do and take a look at to determine methods to power that. However how can we make the factor it is best to do one thing you need to do.

Perhaps we’ll change gears just a bit bit, study slightly bit extra concerning the enterprise aspect of ICAROS. You understand, what’s the general enterprise mannequin? I do know you may have totally different fashions going into B2B. You clearly have the house variations of what you may have, however inform us slightly bit extra concerning the enterprise mannequin and the way you’re working to make that profitable.

Johannes Scholl: Proper. So, typically, you would resolve between these two branches. We obtained the patron department and the opposite one is the business. Simply traditionally we began ICAROS with business product, I discussed earlier. Like 10k for the {hardware}, after which we might go into these prime [00:21:00] locations, and a few of that is nonetheless the case.

Nevertheless, particularly after this occasion on CES, we observed okay, there’s some robust demand from shoppers on the market. So, we must always have one thing for them at hand as nicely. Till the Covid pandemic actually hit, we had been on the trail to work on the business health and medical and people top-notch lodge. So it was all business prospects, who all shut down via the pandemic. After which, we needed to, type of, invent a second enterprise mannequin. And that invention was the ICAROS HOME with the ICAROS CLOUD. And in addition we stepped again from solely making digital actuality content material to additionally having a cellular app that will run on the person’s pill or smartphone.

And that will work with some quite simple units like our ICAROS CLOUD, which is an inflatable full physique exercise gadget. That within the first place doesn’t work with digital actuality. So these days, I feel now we have much more customers on our cellular app than now we have in digital actuality. Nonetheless, now we have a bit [00:22:00] totally different enterprise fashions right here.

So if we might speak to business prospects these days, many of the income we might generate with this sort of buyer is thru the {hardware} and software program lifetime license. So, for instance, if we might speak to a remedy heart in Germany and we’d arrange a tool for say twenty 5 thousand euros, for them, it’s actually necessary to, like, have this one time cost after which have all the system arrange after which go from there. The extra we glance into health and shoppers, the extra we glance into recurring income via software program subscriptions. Particularly our ICAROS app, it’s a month-to-month subscription. It’s nineteen {dollars} per 30 days. And you may select month-to-month, you possibly can activate or deactivate. So I feel it is extremely honest contract that we’re providing right here and it’s continuously rising, that may be a beauty of it. On-line subscriptions, they’re changing into increasingly necessary for our total enterprise mannequin.

As a client, you’ll purchase an ICAROS HOME or ICAROS CLOUD, you’ll get the unit and you then would look into the [00:23:00] subscriptions. However typically content material is king, and it’s extra, and increasingly concerning the content material. Once I communicate of improvement these days, my co-founder, who’s main our improvement group, it’s software program improvement actually. And it’s additionally enjoyable to see, since you’re getting that suggestions so straight.

You launch a brand new sport, you will notice the acceptance price. You will note how lengthy shall be performed. Are individuals keen to pay for it? Will they invite others? Will they battle one another on the leaderboard? Stuff like that. I, in fact, love the web strategy, as a result of it’s like getting in shut contact with the tip person. So, these are the 2 enterprise fashions for us.

Final however not least, via Covid additionally, we actually began with organising an internet retailer and promoting on to shoppers. So we actually kicked off D2C enterprise, that we didn’t have three years in the past. The world has opened up once more, not solely in Europe and the US, but additionally Asia now. New initiatives are being began, health requirements, lodges. So it’s nice to be again on the map for them. But in addition, we construct up this complete client [00:24:00] universe and it’s nice to have this now, as a result of we will simply maintain doing that with out letting go of the enterprise prospects. In order that’s type of what we’re taking a look at proper now.

Preston Lewis: As you’re saying that, it’s actually attention-grabbing to suppose again, as a result of hindsight’s twenty-twenty and, fortunately issues have, type of, labored out in the best way we might hope with, so far as VR health within the trade, proper? As a result of I imply, it may have taken a completely totally different flip. Meta may not have invested in it. HTC may not have stored going with their units and stuff, but it surely’s, type of, turned out for us.

However what it makes me take into consideration is, you may have a cellular app, which you talked about has extra individuals utilizing it proper now. Whereas VR, it’s nonetheless early. It’s attention-grabbing, as a result of to me it sort of feels like after we had been at Bodybuilding.com, it was the identical dialogue between cellular and net. Proper? While you’re constructing software program merchandise. It was, like, we had like ninety % of the order… nicely, I imply, clearly one hundred percent had been, like, desktop. After which there was this second, Ryan and I bear in mind, the place it was, like, “wow, cellular is gonna take over all of this, we must always in all probability get forward of these items.”

And so it’s simply actually attention-grabbing that we’re nonetheless in that second in [00:25:00] time. I feel it’s necessary for our listeners, as a result of early days was tremendous dangerous to get into VR. Now we’ve, type of, handed this hump the place it’s nonetheless early days, there’s nonetheless a ton of alternative within the trade. However we’re, type of, now on that precipice of, like, “are they actually gonna go away from utilizing their cell phones? Wouldn’t individuals somewhat watch motion pictures and issues on their cell phones?” It’s like, nicely, wait a minute. Fairly quickly it’s gonna be hindsight, the place they’re like, “oh, everybody has a really cheap headset the place they cannot solely fulfill all their leisure wants, however they’re gonna be capable to do all of the health stuff.”

So, thought that was a very necessary level that got here to thoughts, as you’re saying this entire, “proper now, our cellular app has extra customers, however VR, you understand, it’s selecting up.” It’s nonetheless a ton of alternative for builders and creators to have the ability to get into this.

Johannes Scholl: One of many main causes for us after we developed the CLOUD, and the cellular app and that total system was, we are attempting to reply three questions. As a result of let’s say, okay, it’s Covid and also you need to promote product to the web retailer, like, what’s wanted.

And we stated, we need to construct a full physique exercise gadget. So it must be full physique, which the ICAROS units, they offer [00:26:00] you core, they offer you shoulder, they offer you coordination. However for instance, arms or legs don’t actually play a serious position on the ICAROS gadget. So we stated, okay, it must be full physique.

Then the opposite factor was, it ought to be appropriate for all the household. So, if mommy buys it and she or he must justify, she will say, “hey, the youngsters can use it, you should use it.” So it ought to be adaptable for particular person necessities. Then the opposite factor was, ought to be shipped in a single field through UPS. As a result of we’ll solely be capable to ship it via the web retailer.

Once more, the fourth one, and that was actually necessary, was, we need to have a really low entry hurdle on the technological aspect. So we stated, realistically as we speak, three years in the past, like, what number of of our potential prospects do personal a headset? Not too many. What number of of those will purchase a headset, as a result of their need to get that exercise expertise with ICAROS is so robust. A few them. We’re promoting headsets so much, not an enormous deal. However what’s the gadget, what’s the expertise that all the potential prospects have already got? [00:27:00] That’s the cellular gadget. So in the long run, that’s how we developed the system.

We sneak into the households of the individuals with out promoting them an excessive amount of further gear. Nonetheless, we’re robust believers within the potential of VR, and particularly there the place digital actuality will not be a nice-to-have, however it will probably actually flip into essential. And, I discussed remedy earlier. Additionally skilled sports activities.

With utilizing digital actuality, you possibly can actually make the exercises grow to be more practical. You can also make a distinction in how the individuals react. If we speak to stroke sufferers, for instance, the immersion in digital actuality makes such a distinction for them, as a result of they, type of, go away the true world and out of the blue the psychological impact performs an enormous position.

Or I can ask the identical particular person to lean to the correct fifteen levels and maintain that place for a minute, and that particular person will inform me, ” take a look at me, I’m not in a position to try this.” And the identical particular person, [00:28:00] I’ll put the VR headset on and can ask to try this motion, as a result of the particular person doesn’t need to hit an impediment or they need to acquire some factors, and out of the blue voila. It really works.

And I present that particular person the video in a while and so they say, ” oh shit, that’s unbelievable.”

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Johannes Scholl: They, type of, really feel themselves in a different way. It may be skilled athletes searching for these further features. And so the cognitive side and the psychological side which you can add in quite simple methods simply by placing a headset on. Low value, accessible in all places.

I imply, that may grow to be an actual sport changer. And I feel that the trade also needs to look into these advantages and make use of them as a substitute of simply copying what’s already there.

I’m curious, like, how all the VR trade will develop, and when will we see these headsets and the releases of massive firms. I assume everyone’s curious.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s an incredible segue. You understand what’s attention-grabbing is, I completely agree. If you happen to consider VR as only a display screen in your face, and it’s like, “what’s an enormous deal? You understand, like, I’d somewhat simply have a display screen [00:29:00] some other place.” However if you really notice and see the research which have proven that, like, your mind treats it fully totally different. Everyone knows Thoughts Over Matter. And the Placebo Impact.

There’s many various issues that like you possibly can, like, nearly hack your mind to transcend your limitations. And simply, it’s an entire new world. After which as soon as individuals notice like, “whoa, it is a new paradigm for what’s attainable in all these totally different areas, that makes it approach higher.” You understand, not simply, like, 5 % higher, however doubtlessly 10x higher.

Johannes Scholl: Precisely.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s that psychological leap, I feel, that imaginative and prescient that when individuals get that, and that we and others are proving it out, that’s gonna assist to actually drive that house. And I feel, to only type of segue proper into that, as we speak’s VR health panorama, clearly with you and plenty of different nice firms which might be constructing experiences and at-home and in-gym. With the expertise now we have as we speak, which is approach higher than these early years, you understand, that we bear in mind seven years in the past. Nevertheless it’s nonetheless not fairly the place we would like, however what do you concentrate on the state-of-the-art health as we speak? And extra importantly, the place do you suppose it’s gonna go? {Hardware}, software program adoption for health and sports activities, extra particularly, within the [00:30:00] subsequent three to 5 years?

Johannes Scholl: It’s onerous to inform the place it’s going, however my want for the place it ought to be going is that we focus onto the advantages and on the massive distinction that digital actuality, the impression it will probably have. And the instant impact on coaching, particularly the cognitive, psychological features. Anticipation, coordination, steadiness, like, full skillset that in any other case you’ll possibly solely practice while going snowboarding or taking part in tennis, and stuff like that.

Then making use of, actually, the neighborhood side, the social side. Being at house, having a cool class with different individuals, irrespective of the place on the earth. I don’t know the place it’s going, however I’m certain that it’ll not disappear.

I imagine that the builders and the gamers within the trade, additionally the expertise producers, they need to additionally hyperlink and cooperate and inform one another the place stuff’s going. Know-how must assist us as builders to make this imaginative and prescient flip right into a actuality.

If that’s taking place, then I see an incredible future for digital actuality train with all [00:31:00] these totally different sides and features.

Preston Lewis: What I feel the cool factor too is, I imply, we’re all doing this for lots of various causes, proper? As a result of now we have a imaginative and prescient, but additionally on the finish of the day, that is gonna actually positively impression individuals’s lives.

It’s the mission to have the ability to assist individuals, in Black Field’s case, assist them degree up their lives utilizing this immersive expertise, by creating these addictive health experiences, particularly the dependancy. I imply, it’s all the time been this sort of like unfavorable connotation, however we actually suppose that gamifying issues the correct approach can create wholesome addictions which might be gonna assist you. Like we talked about at the start of the podcast.

Johannes Scholl: A optimistic behavior.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, precisely. A optimistic behavior that individuals stick with and cling to that get all of them the opposite optimistic advantages of that. In order that being stated, type of, segueing into what’s been essentially the most rewarding side of constructing ICAROS?

Has it been a buyer testimonial? Perhaps one thing you noticed within the medical subject? Perhaps it’s simply the pure pleasure of making a cool, modern product? What’s been essentially the most rewarding side?

Johannes Scholl: There’s many various rewarding ones, as you stated. The pure pleasure of [00:32:00] making a related, radically new modern expertise. And being acknowledged as a related participant in that subject, in our time alone is one thing that I imagine, as a product developer and startup founder, is one thing that many individuals would possibly dream of being in that place in some unspecified time in the future. So you have to be grateful for that alone. That’s rewarding within the first place, constructing one thing actually out of nowhere, and turning that imaginative and prescient right into a actuality. All in all, that’s a very powerful and most rewarding side.

Nevertheless, if you happen to take a look at it extra intently, it’s in fact the individuals utilizing the units. Particularly the sufferers bettering on the units, individuals altering their minds and altering their methods to dwell and being extra lively, residing extra wholesome life-style. And telling you this on Instagram. These days, a number of occasions I actually simply repost person generated content material, as a result of I see individuals at house, working with our units, with [00:33:00] their household. And I didn’t ask them to put up a video of it, it’s simply they get pleasure from their exercise and so they get pleasure from understanding with the methods. That’s the second half that’s simply really rewarding, and it reveals you that the expertise you’re working with, the merchandise you constructing, that they’re related.

Final however not least, in fact it’s cool to see among the items being put in in a few of these locations the place I’d by no means dream of. It’s not a lot concerning the individuals. It’s nice if celebrities use it, and stuff like that. However actually, like, having these amenities recognizing all the potential this expertise has, and utilizing our items, putting in them there. And utilizing them as, to not brag with it, however actually additionally as like, “hey, look what we obtained, we obtained this ICAROS software.” We’ve got this one set up in Switzerland on the Purple Bull media world the place they are saying, “hey, this unit now we have right here, we can not change the gear, we can not change, we can not take your gear out right here.”

They’re simply utilizing it throughout, and over, and over, and over and each two years or so, you need to go there and tighten all of the [00:34:00] screws and take care of the items, as a result of they’re used a lot. And I feel these are essentially the most rewarding features of all the journey.

Not a lot the awards. For the second, that’s additionally one thing you might be happy with, however actually, I imply, it’s the long-term success. And the long-term suggestions that basically retains you going and that motivates you additionally to take the subsequent steps. And that’s it for me, actually.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s simply this superb feeling generally if you’re like, “this was actually simply an concept in our heads.” Like, and it’s loopy that that’s attainable as people, so we will do that working collectively. Nevertheless it simply this concept, which no matter that’s, you understand, in our brains and these neurons. And dealing collectively, after which swiftly there it’s, and you then get that suggestions that you simply dreamed of. Of like, “that was so enjoyable.” Or “the rehab was far more efficient.” Prefer it’s nearly bizarre. Nearly loopy that we will even try this.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, no. I imply, simply to piggyback on that as nicely, I feel the opposite cool factor, particularly within the ICAROS case, is that, and I assume additionally with the Black Field case, is that the medical trade is beginning to acknowledge this expertise as an actual legit software for rehabilitation, [00:35:00] in addition to the health trade for all the opposite stuff we talked about.

You talked about if a medical college or facility is utilizing it in your finish, meaning they’ve in all probability gone via some fairly loopy rigorous testing. They’ve actually vet, I imply the medical trade has all of the compliance points and stuff like that, and so they actually vet the applied sciences that are available in.

So I feel it speaks volumes to the legitimacy of this expertise, of your expertise, the truth that they’re really utilizing that time and again of their amenities.

Johannes Scholl: Ultimately, actually it’s about, like, does it assist or not? That’s the straightforward query. While you communicate with sufferers. I imply, it’s just like the enjoyable and every little thing, that’s good to have, however does it assist me?

And once more, that’s the place I imagine digital actuality already is a sport changer. And there’s loads of research accessible already on, Digital actuality, not solely with health, but additionally, like, going to the dentist and having the headset on, and like all of these results, every little thing that’s occurring in your mind in digital actuality that you should use positively.

That’s additionally my robust perception why digital actuality is not going to disappear, as a result of it already discovered its niches the place you understand it actually makes a [00:36:00] large distinction. You may’t let go of it anymore. Now we’ll see the way it grows extra into different areas as nicely by changing into extra reasonably priced, less difficult to make use of, extra arms on, and on, and on and on.

Nevertheless it already has confirmed its effectiveness. So it’s a confirmed expertise now.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s onerous for me to carry this one again, as a result of I maintain fascinated about, like, the rehab. It’s like, you understand, you’re saying just like the particular person goes into rehab. And like, “I can’t transfer my arm this a lot.” After which, you understand, they’ve to maneuver outta the best way to a hospital, after which they present they really can. I’m imagining, like, you understand, an older particular person in VR, they begin strolling. Pace is gradual. However they’re on this good, stunning atmosphere. After which Cocaine Bear comes flying at them and so they must run away. And it’s like, “look, see? I informed you you would. Look what you probably did.” You see individuals freaking out. Which may not be a good suggestion. However, like, yeah swiftly… “see how briskly you ran?” They usually’ll be like, “I’m by no means doing this once more.”

Preston Lewis: Now you make me wanna watch Cocaine Bear. I nonetheless haven’t seen it. That sounds superior.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s fairly enjoyable.

Preston Lewis: Nicely and to piggyback on that, as nicely, with the Black Field stuff so far as the research. We’ve carried out a number of research with UCLA, [00:37:00] college research. And, man, the outcomes that the individuals within the research have skilled are insane. Like, we did one the place it was three months of exercises, which was about twelve weeks of 3 times per week doing a Black Field exercise. And it proved that Black Field’s expertise in comparison with, like, the standard cable resistance machine coaching, which was “the management”, resulted in higher decreased physique fats, elevated lean physique mass, decrease resting coronary heart price, decrease systolic diastolic blood stress, elevated flexibility. Just about each, each metric you would have measured the Black Field VR exercise was higher than the standard cable resistance coaching. And that is all primarily based on college research, so we imagine that is the way forward for health, because it sounds such as you do as nicely. And the entire trade’s simply getting began.

Johannes Scholl: The trade ought to work collectively. The electronics producers, the software program builders. I imply, everyone knows particularly with sure prospects, how onerous it may be to actually set up digital actuality gear at [00:38:00] some place after which get it operating. Like, putting in is one half, however then have it being operated by the individuals on web site who is perhaps, I don’t know, healthcare professionals, no matter. The simpler it turns into, the simpler the job shall be for us. And in the end the extra sufferers, customers, will profit from it.

Preston Lewis: You and your group have been on the forefront of innovation on this area. So, we wanna know, our viewers needs to know what’s subsequent for ICAROS? Do you may have any thrilling new upcoming developments or merchandise that you’ve got within the pipeline?

Johannes Scholl: I discussed earlier that our focus actually is software program improvement. So I can inform, like, inside this yr or so, you’ll not see any new loopy {hardware} from ICAROS.

We continuously deliver loopy new {hardware}, however not for now. We’re actually specializing in each app and digital actuality software program improvement. Build up the neighborhood, making the person person profile extra necessary for the person person. Like this itch, to continuously, like, log in. These type of results are essential to us.

After which, we’ll conduct a number of research in Germany with [00:39:00] hospitals and universities round decrease again ache. We simply launched a research with the College Clinic in Heidelberg. They’re working with post-Covid, long-Covid sufferers. Most of it’s actually about motivation and getting individuals into exercise once more through the use of digital actuality.

That shall be very attention-grabbing to see the result of that research. After which, in fact, implementing all of those learnings into our software program, these individualized coaching packages will play a serious position. So, a number of stuff occurring within the digital world at ICAROS proper now.

Ryan DeLuca: I simply wanna say, it’s an honor to have the ability to have you ever on the podcast. If you happen to would’ve informed my fourteen yr previous self, once I was watching Lawnmower Man, that I’d discover and meet the individual that really make this a actuality and I’m gonna get match from it. Like, that’s, I’d’ve blown my fourteen yr previous thoughts.

Johannes Scholl: Thank Preston, Ryan, it’s our pleasure to be part of your podcast. And in addition following you, and your progress and course of all through the time, working with digital actuality and likewise having this worldwide connection [00:40:00] in Europe and the US, which I feel is a really cool factor. And it’s not a given, and you probably have a relation, you’ll want to work on a relation. And that’s cool. So once more, it’s my pleasure to contribute to this podcast as we speak a bit. Man, I look ahead to our subsequent dialog.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Nicely, that’s on a regular basis now we have. Thanks a lot, Johannes, for becoming a member of us and sharing your group’s story, insights and keenness for creating the way forward for VR Health with our viewers. For any of you within the viewers, as ordinary, if you happen to’d prefer to get in touch with the group, we’ll put all the information into the present notes, so be sure you test these out. Thanks once more.

Increase. Explosions. All proper. Let’s, uh, that was superior. Um, let’s do…

Ryan DeLuca: Are we alleged to dab now?

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Are you aware of anybody that ought to be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t neglect to e mail us at podcast vr health insider.com and observe us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You may as well be a part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, maintain creating and dreaming up the subsequent huge factor that can [00:41:00] revolutionize the world of health.