April 13, 2024

Welcome to a brand new episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Be part of us as we welcome Joshua Kozak of HASfit and Loodo. He’s a digital health pioneer utilizing XR applied sciences to enhance the world of sports activities and health.

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Episode 3 – Joshua Kozak

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that can revolutionize the best way the world will play sports activities, work out and get match together with your hosts. Preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field VR, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR fitness center and produce a long time of expertise from creating a number of the largest health know-how corporations on this planet.

They’re bringing collectively the perfect and brightest minds that will help you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Right this moment we’ve a digital health trade pioneer, Josh Kozak. Josh, thanks for being right here.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, it’s a pleasure, honored, particularly being an early visitor. We’ll look again on this in a pair years from now and this will likely be bragging rights.

Preston Lewis: Heck yeah, man. Made it.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s proper. Yeah. Think about being one of many first Joe Rogan visitors? That’s gotta be fairly cool.

Joshua Kozak: There we go.

Preston Lewis: So,simply to kick it off, why don’t you simply give our viewers slightly fast intro into who you’re and inform me slightly bit about your background?

Thanks Preston. As you stated, my title is Joshua Kozak. I’ve been [00:01:00] within the well being and health trade for twenty years now. however, uh, , within the final thriteen years or so, strictly on the digital aspect. I used to be early to train streaming again when your major choices have been DVDs.

We began streaming again in like 2010, 2011. That’s led to over a billion exercises streamed over the past decade. After which in 2014 we have been early companions with Android Put on and Apple Watch, and began constructing sensible watch apps, leveraging the movement sensors and the apps to launch a collection of apps that would monitor human motion from sleeping to train, et cetera.

That resulted in acquisition gives from three of the highest 4 sensible watch producers on the time. After which most not too long ago, in 2018, partnered with a big healthcare firm to begin a healthcare slash wellness slash health firm. Sort of the convergence of therapeutic train in healthcare.

Joshua Kozak: And, we offered that in January 2021, and now I’mlooking in the direction of the following [00:02:00] frontier, which is why I’m right here becoming a member of y’all.

Ryan DeLuca: You’ve been in so many various components of health and know-how and utilizing completely different applied sciences, it’s simply superb while you hear like a billion exercises served. So a billion coach Kozaks on the market. Many exercises.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, I do know. It’s form of bizarre, particularly as a result of it’s like I don’t get to see them head to head. So it’s all simply shot in a studio with only a couple folks standing there. It’s not likely till I’m going out into the actual world and get the privilege of assembly some folks which are following the exercises, that it turns into actual.

Ryan DeLuca: Yeah, little doubt.

Preston Lewis: All of your followers.

Inform us extra about HASfit, so slightly bit extra about, what’s it? How’d you begin it? Why’d you begin it?

Joshua Kozak: Nicely, due to HASfit, I’m formally like an E-list superstar, I believe slightly longer and I would qualify for Dancing With the Stars.

I’d be out within the first spherical, I can let you know that a lot. You already know, with HASfit, we’ve delivered full size dwelling exercise movies and we’ve at all times used YouTube as a prime of funnel. So folks discover us by way of YouTube after which they transfer downstream to our personal merchandise, which is our cellular apps, our sensible TV apps and our web site.

We actually serve nearly each demographic [00:03:00] and modality you may consider.

And so those who don’t know, it’s principally streaming exercises with Josh. And your spouse, proper?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, my spouse and I, we lead ’em collectively. I obtained began by myself. So really earlier than I met her. Um, and it’s humorous, the viewers was like ninety p.c male at the moment, proper?

After which I introduced on her and it was like the right ying and yang mixture. And now we’re like fifty-fifty, and it simply makes all the things higher and simpler.

Preston Lewis: That’s so cool.

Ryan DeLuca: So superior. So, inform us slightly bit extra about what you realized. Such as you clearly, such as you stated, you don’t see immediately the folks which are doing the exercises, however I’m certain you get loads of suggestions.

What sort of suggestions do you get? What have you ever realized in regards to the health shopper by way of these streaming providers?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, so much, however it’s solely a thirty minute podcast, so I’m gonna attempt to maintain it brief. I’m gonna attempt to maintain it brief and candy. one of many greatest advantages that we’ve is basically simply the connection that we’ve been in a position to construct with the viewers, in that, they actually respect seemingly having us being of their front room. It’s one of many greatest add-ons that we’ve. We attempt laborious to be personable and actual,and never like a faux character placing on a present, however any person’s like “Oh, my legs are literally burning too.”

Like, “Oh, that is [00:04:00] really laborious for me.” Like, “Oh, shoot, I simply sprained my hamstring in the midst of the shot.” Or no matter. So, simply being actual and real. However then, I believe the opposite factor, too, simply understanding thatso many individuals have limitations which are getting of their method from exercising. And that could possibly be issues like, full-time jobs and tasks with children, to bodily illnesses, et cetera. So, , we wanna reside on this world the place we really feel like, “Oh, all you gotta do is as straightforward as stepping on the market and hitting the play button.”

However, everyone has all of this stuff which are always pulling at them, pulling them away from being to perform their health objectives.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s fascinating with the ability to have that connection, such as you stated, and simply realizing that the exercise is there, like they simply must press play and do the exercise. And also you hear from the people who do the exercise, however what we don’t hear from are the people who didn’t press play they usually didn’t stream that exercise that was there. And so it’s fascinating, such as you stated, there’s a lot in folks’s lives that may maintain them again from that. What have you ever seen that works for that shopper? What doesn’t appear to work for them? And, extra about that.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, I believe, simply from the enchantment of getting simply accessible dwelling exercises, , it removes loads of the [00:05:00] boundaries to entry. The flexibility to say: “Hey, I don’t need to look presentable to go to the fitness center. I don’t have to fret in regards to the commute.” We’ve loads of younger dad and mom, , like, “Oh, I put my baby down for a nap and I’m gonna hit a fast thirty minute exercise, whether or not they sleep within the different room or whereas they’re within the room, I’m gonna work out.”

And so for HASfit’s viewers, it’s actually about simply the simply accessibility and similar to with the ability to hit play at any time with no excuses at any time when they’ve ten to thirty minutes of their day. And so the folks which are profitable, are the people who construct that behavior to search for these moments and get that exercise in.

So it sounds such as you’re proper there of their front room. You’re chatting with the buyer in a extremely natural, approachable method, which after we checked out your movies prior to now, it positively has that basically approachable feeling to it, which I believe is nice for folks.

As a result of, I imply, as we all know, lots of people are intimidated by health generally. So it’s superior that you just’ve approached the intimidation issue by being actual in your finish. However then additionally, as you talked about, decreasing the friction, which will increase adherence and issues like that. Tremendous cool.

Joshua Kozak: Precisely. Yeah.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s really an fascinating level, too. Generally while you see skilled [00:06:00] streaming instructors, like Peloton instructors or Apple Health instructors, folks appear to suppose they’ve this like excellent life and it’s, “Oh, they’ve excellent motivation and it’s easy for them.” And “If it was my job to work out all day, then I’d be in form.” And it’s actually laborious to narrate to folks like that, although behind the scenes these folks have simply as many struggles, if no more than lots of people. However, it’s good to have any person that appears extra actual that individuals can relate to, like Preston was saying.

That’s one of many issues that’s mistaken with the health trade as an entire, is there’s thismisconception that you need to be excellent. That each one these folks’s our bodies are excellent, 300 and sixty 5 days out of the 12 months.

Joshua Kozak: After which when you’re not that, “Why am I even attempting?” And “If I can’t work out seven days every week for an hour a time, then what’s the purpose?” However that’s not actual world, that’s not actual life. We’ve been profitable in being extra real and genuine.

I believe I obtained my first like weight set at 13 years previous. I’ve been exercising since then. I’ve to, like,inspire myself and provides myself a pep speak. I’m gonna work out later at present and I’m gonna want, give myself slightly pep speak earlier than I do.

You dovetailed proper into the following query, so I gained’t spoil that one. [00:07:00] However,I simply wanna take a fast second, as a result of our viewers are the builders as properly,creating this stuff. So I believe one form of pin to place in it’s, that be aware that loads of creators, after they really feel like they wanna create one thing nice on this trade, they suppose that it needs to be this loopy excessive manufacturing worth. After which, talking of friction, not solely on the health aspect, however friction on the creator aspect, you’re similar to, “Ah, crap, I don’t have the money to get this fancy tools or the money to do that loopy studio”, or no matter. So I believe that’s the opposite factor, except for serving the client, one of many cool issues that it appears you’ve finished with the HASfit stuff is simply saying, “Hey, I’m simply gonna use the tools I’ve,and get it on the market as a creator and serve the audiences as shortly as doable as properly.”

Preston Lewis: So I believe that’s a great be aware to point out folks that you just’ve actually confirmed the lean, fast, manufacturing side as properly.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, simply to comply with up with that, briefly. I obtained began with 100 {dollars} Canon Energy Shot digital camera that I picked up. It was, like, not a camcorder, like a digital digital camera for these older of us listening that keep in mind these earlier than we had smartphone to take them.

It will probably solely shoot ten minutes at a time. So I might shoot ten minutes, after which it will go off, after which I’d need to [00:08:00] restart and put all the things again collectively. All that to say, I believe, persons are coming when you might be your actual self and be somebody that they’ll relate to. They’re gonna present up for that over high quality lighting and 4K video.

Preston Lewis: Yep.

Ryan DeLuca: Very true. Yeah, so on that be aware, like we talked about, what do you see as the most important downside with the health trade at present? We form of talked about slightly bit in regards to the problem, and the people who appear to be excellent and we’re being as natural as doable. However, in health generally, and present health corporations, there’s an entire bunch of stuff on the market, so many streaming providers, so manygyms, and various kinds of exercises, and various kinds of tools and wearables. There’s so many issues, however but, we’re extra overweight and we’re extra outta form than ever. And we at all times discuss that stat of eighty plus p.c of individuals aren’t in a position to persist with a health program, even with all these choices.

Why do you suppose that’s? What does the health trade get mistaken at present?

That’s an ideal query, , and it’s similar to you talked about, I imply, tons of of hundreds of thousands and billions of {dollars} going into startups attempting to unravel this downside, and we’re not any nearer to reaching it.

Joshua Kozak: And once I have a look at the trade and what issues they’re attempting to unravel for, they’re attempting to unravel for schooling, they usually’re attempting to unravel for like self quantification or metric monitoring. [00:09:00] Proper? Like new trackers, et cetera. However, when you really communicate to folks, that’s not the issues they’re experiencing.

Individuals aren’t not exercising trigger they don’t know what’s good for them. By now, everyone is aware of. Like everyone at each nook of the planet, they know they need to be exercising. That’s not a secret, ? So, the schooling aspect, it’s like, what are we doing right here, of us?

After which, the self quantification aspect actually solely helps these which are doing all the things else proper. And that’s gonna give them like that prime two to 5 p.c edge in enchancment. And that’s nice if you’re already getting eight hours of sleep at evening, you’re already consuming all, you’re getting your entire vitamin, you already exercising, you’re already getting all of yournon-exercise exercise in.

However, that applies to so few folks. And so, while you really like starttalking to folks, it actually boils down to love threethings.

They lack motivation. Why train? Like, I don’t have the motivation to get began.

They lack consistency. They get began they usually give up, after which there’s no, they’re not going for any prolonged time frame. It’s on and off the wagon, is what I hear on a regular basis.

After which, fairly frankly, they discover train boring. Which is why we’re right here having this dialog at present. It justdoesn’t curiosity them. It’s like [00:10:00] operating on the treadmill. The forms of modalities that we’ve put collectively should not pure for us and our human brains. You already know, like, what are we working in the direction of right here? And they also, all variety ofcompound into the opposite overlaying downside, which is it takes a very long time to see outcomes on the subject of health.

So, as a result of we’re not seeing outcomes, we lose motivation, we lack consistency and train is boring. However these tons of of hundreds of thousands of {dollars} aren’t going into fixing these issues. They’re going into like excessive tech, which is cool. I like tech. I’m a technologist, however I like tech that solves an issue, and I don’t suppose we’re fixing that downside. Proper now.

Ryan DeLuca: Nice factors. Couldn’t have stated it higher.

Joshua Kozak: Come down from my soapbox now.

Ryan DeLuca: I believe we’re all on that soapbox. It’s a giant soapbox. There’s loads of room.

Preston Lewis: To transition slightly bit, you talked about HASfit. You have been early within the area, you bought scrappy with the precise manufacturing of issues, quickly created worth for a rising shopper base. You have been in a position to cut back the friction of going to the fitness center, not even having to go to the fitness center, however with the ability to get that fitness center slash health expertise within the consolation of your individual dwelling.

And have been you doing this [00:11:00] earlier than the P90X days or in the identical time?

Joshua Kozak: P90X had been round. That they had launched P90X and Madness, have been there two merchandise. That was earlier than they’d an entire suite, , at thetime it was simply the 2 DVD choices. Yeah.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, so that you’re creating this content material tremendous early, as you talked about, you’re a technologist, utilizing the instruments you had at your disposal. Proper? Even when it was a crappy little camcorder or no matter, you simply went out and grabbed the tech and went after it. And it feels like,and we’ll get into this slightly bit later within the present, however you’re beginning to do this together with your subsequent enterprise.

However what sort of began to get you particularly in VR and AR, and a few of these different newer applied sciences which are coming?

Joshua Kozak: You form of alluded to it already, butmy methodology all alongside has been to say, “What applied sciences are approaching, what tendencies are approaching which are what we are able to leverage to assist get folks shifting.”

And , the opposite factor I might add to what you simply stated about HASfit, is it was bandwidth enhance. It was simply at that cut-off date that bandwidth was quick sufficient to help streaming video. There’s a motive why Netflix began with mail and never streaming, proper?

It’s just like the speeds simply weren’t there. And so now we’re [00:12:00] coming into one other paradigm shift, the place there are new applied sciences approaching which have the chance to make train extra enjoyable, proper? I see that being the most important downside once I look again at my expertise, and the place I’ve been, and the place we are actually and the place we’re headed. Is, what can we do to make train extra enjoyable?

And, , VR, AR, and a number of the new applied sciences are creating alternative to not solely make it extra enjoyable, however then decrease that motivation threshold required to get shifting. It’s only a logical reply and subsequent step inwhat we are able to leverage, in comparison with the place lots of people are going proper now, simply going again to the final query, which is enchancment in sensor know-how. Which is nice, however that’s solely gonna assist the 5 p.c which are already doing all the things else proper.Do you may have any kinda magic moments while you first tried VR, and also you’re like, “Okay, wait a minute, it is a completely different tech, that is gonna be insanely highly effective”?

Yeah, that’s a great query. I don’t wanna say I’ll wish to teardown different folks’s merchandise, however like, once I attempt VR health merchandise I’m like, “Hey, that is actually cool, however man, I might do that, I might do this, I might do that completely different.” And so, I believe for me it was getting in after which [00:13:00] seeing the alternatives on what I at all times to look and steal or borrow what persons are doing proper, after which enhance on the place I believe I can enhance.

What obtained thrilling was once I stated, “Look, listed here are the VR fitnessgames and functions that exist already, and actually, I believe there’s a lot room for enchancment.” However they’re already partaking folks. So it’s like, “Wow, in the event that they’re working proper now like this, think about if X, Y, and Z have been to occur?”

So to me, that’s the thrilling half, is to see like how a lot is left, proper? How a lot enchancment is left.

Ryan DeLuca: I imply, on that be aware, like, I believe we form of all agree. Proper? We play sure video games like Beat Saber or different form of comparable ones. It’s like, there’s one thing actually magical that occurs in VR, the immersive a part of it, and like, actually being into these experiences.

However, there does appear to be a lacking piece. And what we at all times form of discuss is that development piece. Video games do such a great job of making these compulsion loops that make you need to come again, and also you’ve invested time into this recreation, and also you’vecreated issues within the personalization and the objective setting. Which loads of the present experiences are fairly one dimensional; it’s simply do the exercise, do the exercise, and there’s far more that connects all of it collectively.

Preston Lewis: Good level. I imply,piggybacking on that, too, what you’re seeing [00:14:00] is, after all everybody goes on the market and borrows patterns and learns new issues from new video games and this, that and the opposite.

It’s fascinating to see,we’re within the form of early days of VR health, however it’s fascinating to see lots of people are going out and barely tweaking experiences, proper? Versus, and once more, we’ll get into your your, stuff, butit’s simply one other form of ” slash recreation”. Yeah, precisely.

Preston Lewis: So,actually to speak about what you bought arising. However, last item on the VR, AR aspect, are there any experiences there that you just’ve seen are the perfect ones on the market, particularly for VR, AR health?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah. I promise I’m not being paid to say this, however to me, Black Field VR is basically setting a bar fairly excessive.

Simply so it doesn’t sound like it is a paid promo, I’m gonna articulate in my very own phrases “why”. So it’s the differentiation between a gamified health expertise versus a health pushed recreation. And I believe that’s a extremely necessary distinction, as a result of what you see most individuals available in the market doing at present, is that they’re simply taking regular train health after which they’re including factors, leaderboards and badges to it.

However that’s not a recreation. You’re gamifying health, however it’s simply nonetheless health. In contrast [00:15:00] to what Black Field VR is doing, which is, a recreation that occurs to be pushed by the health that you just’re doing. I might play Black Field VR with a management in a conventional method, the place you possibly can’t say that about most VR health video games which are simply utilizing, like, regular actions and simply including factors to it.

Sothat’s what excites me, is that potential to take it to the following stage and never simply be a copycat arm swinger, rhythm recreation like a number of the tasks on the market.

Ryan DeLuca: It positively wasn’t a paid promo. However, what’s your Venmo once more?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, precisely.

Ryan DeLuca: You nailed it. I imply, that’s what’s our whole objective from the very starting. It’s like, how do you make it really a enjoyable recreation first that you just’d need to play and itch to come back again, and thenadd on the health side to it from there. Be sure that it’s an efficient health program, after all, as a result of I’d a lot somewhat simply play the controller if I’m not gonna get the health outcomes from it. So that you gotta just be sure you’re getting each side.

Joshua Kozak: After all, yeah, after all. You gotta have each represented.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, superior. So once more, you’ve obtained all this historical past within the health area, a pioneer, you’ve tried all these VR, AR experiences, form of been gathering these patterns, seeing how one can construct your individual product. And now you’re beginning a brand new [00:16:00] immersive health firm known as, is it Loodo?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah. Loodo. Loodo with a unique spelling in Latin is to play. So I simply form of switched up the spelling there.

Ryan DeLuca: I used to be questioning when you use that.

Joshua Kozak: I wanna construct the Fortnite of health, which, , is an bold objective. However you don’t accomplish massive ambitions with out having that objective. To start out, it’s only a cellular health recreation utilizing your physique because the controller. Utilizing pc imaginative and prescient know-how to trace your physique and the actions that you just do and provide you with credit for these actions. And so, the play’s form of amix between an countless runner recreation and a job participant recreation the place you may have periods, ranges, quests, and periods begin at 5 minutes a bit.

Cool. We noticed the video publish, I believe it was on Twitter or one thing. We noticed it pop up, appears to be like tremendous compelling. So, why begin with cellular?

Joshua Kozak: You already know, this was like one thing that I toiled with for fairly a while. And, proper now it’s, accessibility, is what it it comes all the way down to.

You already know, there’s the price ofVR headsets, after which there’s nonetheless some movement illness challenges for some customers. After which the monitoring necessities that I want.We’re like, early, ,iPhone one part of the {hardware} improvement lifecycle. [00:17:00] So for me,I’ve chosen to get the sport on the market and be capable of present a really comparable expertise to what I’ll finally be capable of ship in AR, VR, however by way of cellular, and get and speed up my studying.

So this fashion I can get it out, I can begin studying, after which when the time is true, we are able to port the sport over to AR, VR. After which I form of alluded to it earlier, however the perfect analogy I’ve is the Netflix’s technique, proper? I imply, title d the corporate Netflix, they didn’t title it Mailbox Flick.

That was at all times the plan, however they needed to look ahead to the know-how to mature sufficient. It began simply mail order, after which it was principally mail order with like a fewstreaming choices, once more, as they waited for bandwidth to catch up. However then when bandwidth caught up, growth, they have been in place to take off.

Joshua Kozak: So if I have been to say “What playbook I’m, attempting torun proper now?”, that’s the playbook.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, that’s sensible. And once more, fast level to theaudience, all of this creation’s set within the context of what applied sciences can be found. What you’re doing is principally you may have this concept of, okay, the VR, AR trade is gonna be tremendous highly effective.Sort of lean startup clever, utilizing what you [00:18:00] have, studying as shortly as you possibly can, to iterate on the expertise. That’s actually sensible. So, when you wanna discuss what issues is Loodo fixing for?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah. You already know, one we talked about earlier than. The low hanging fruit, which is the motivation and consistency aspect, proper? Making an attempt to get rid of thecognitive necessities that train locations on people at this cut-off date.

ButI’ll spend just a bit longer speaking about two others that possibly aren’t as apparent. One is younger folks. In our early buyer analysis we havea lot of youthful people which are tremendous concerned with what we’re doing. And we’ve loads of dad and mom of younger folks concerned with signing up on the wait record for his or her children, as a result of they’re like, “My children play too many video video games and possibly it is a method I can really get them to maneuver.”

After which children have an interest as properly. So, , like us older fellows which have been lifting weights and doing issues a conventional method for fairly a while, it’s slightly tougher to show an previous canine new methods. The place the newer era doesn’t have established habits but. So with this younger new era I don’t have to vary behaviors that will exist already. After which,the opposite factor that stood out in ourresearch is brief bouts of motion all through the day.

Loodo [00:19:00] can work two other ways. So once more, the degrees are 5 minutes. So you possibly can both take part in six back-to-back 5 minute ranges, and do a thirty minute full physique exercise. Or, when you work out of your desk all day, like, , the three of us do, proper? And like, “Oh shoot, my again doesn’t really feel good. I obtained 5 minutes in between conferences. You already know what? I wanna maintain my streak alive.” You possibly can flip Loodo on, knock out 5 minutes, get your factors, get your streak going, and get again to your desk. So it additionally works for brief bouts of motion that may be added to any person’s present exercise routine with out essentially having to exchange it as properly, simply to assist them get extra motion in all through the day.

Preston Lewis: Sensible. So, folks that can profit are, would you say variety ofthe basic inhabitants, or would you say particularly the youthful, early kinda adopters not having to vary their behaviors and issues?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah. You already know, I’m a giant fan of Present Me, Don’t Inform Me. And proper now I solely have Inform Me knowledge. I don’t have Present Me knowledge. However all of the Inform Me knowledge says that it’s really a extremely big selection. We’ve folks on our wait record from twelve years previous as much as eighty years previous. Yeah, I imply,I’ll provide you with a stat.

Fifteen p.c of the folks on our ready record are between sixty to eighty years previous. So yeah, , it’sa downside [00:20:00] that individuals have all throughout the board. And so whereas, sure, I’m actually seeking to seize, that eighty p.c of the people who aren’t exercising usually. The opposite perception that we’ve realized is folks which are exercising usually, they don’t essentially love what they’re doing. Yeah, they’ve constructed that behavior, however that doesn’t imply that they’re having fun with it, ? In order that they’re on the lookout for one thing to maintain it recent and never boring, or additive to what they’re already doing, simply to get extra motion all through the day, or on off days.

Preston Lewis: True. Good level. Nicely, so what particularly makes Exergaming so highly effective, proper? So that you’re you’re particularly going to Exergaming, what are you seeing because the issues that make it so highly effective?

I form of alluded to this earlier, however I believe it’simportant to double down on it, which is that it’s not simply including factors, badges on the leaderboard.

Joshua Kozak: That doesn’t make it a recreation, if you’ll. So as an alternative, it’s all of the behavioral design components which are gonna make that constructive influence. It’sthe craft of deriving all of the enjoyable and interesting components present in video games, and making use of them to train, in order that persons are pulled into train versus having to be pushed into.

You already know, that’s a keydistinction. I discussed having to go get a session in later. [00:21:00] I’m gonna need to push myself into that. It’s not like being pulled into it, like the place I’m going do a thirty minute XBox session. Like these are two completely various things. To me, that’s what makes it so highly effective, it’s that push versus pull.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s such a great level. We speak so much at Black Field in regards to the hooked mannequin, how folks create habits round new merchandise. And also you probablyheard of it, the ebook by Nir. It kinda made me take into consideration what we talked about earlier with HASfit is, you stated, “You don’t know the place they’re earlier than they press play in your video.” Proper? Right this moment’s video, you solely know them after they hit play, after they did the exercise? And there’s not a lot getting into between all of that, proper? So if hitting play is principally just like the motion, proper, from the hooked mannequin. Then after that, there’s gotta be a variable reward. And normally with exercise streaming providers, you do get slightly little bit of a reward. Clearly you be ok with your self and dopamine and endorphins, and issues like that from doing the exercise. However you additionally get loads of detrimental, you get the ache of the exercise, you’re drained, you sacrificed time you may have been doing one thing else.

You already know, there’s the funding that they’ve given into this, and also you get one thing again from it. Lots of occasions, these streaming providers, as soon as once more, you may need invested into your monitoring, proper? So now I’ve obtained my streak, I’ve obtained some calorie burning there, and I’ve invested that. [00:22:00] After which there’s gotta be some form of set off to carry them again, proper? So the entire concept is there’s a set off that brings you again into it.

Video games are actually good, particularly cellular video games, proper? They’re so good about push notification; you could come again in, as a result of you could do that factor or this timer simply obtained finished. Or a standard recreation you’re gonna play with your folks, or there’s a event or one thing enjoyable occurring. Doing that motion after which getting that reward. The place, it feels like with Loodo, the objective, as with actually good Exergaming sort of techniques, is to finish that loop versus simply the motion part.

How do you are feeling about that and,have you ever seen that, that appears to make sense?

That aligns with the best way I’m considering as properly. I believe Nir does some actually good things. If we’re speaking about behavioral design, my favourite, researcher is Ukai Chao, when you, get to learn his actionable insights.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah,I inform us this framework. So, very comparable in that understanding, how we are able to carry folks alongside, and actually simply get folks to carry out therequirements of the sport, which on this case is train, with out having a deep cognitive load about it.

You already know, the factor I discussed, too, earlier… the massive downside with train is it takes too lengthy to see outcomes. On this method, we are able to get you in, and 5 minutes in you’re seeing outcomes. You’re getting factors, you [00:23:00] leveled up, you went by way of like three, 4 achievements.

Like, “Oh, I noticed outcomes immediately.” And so there are completely different sort of consequence, however we’re already in a position to reward. After which, the objective is that we get you in lengthy sufficient the place then like, “Holy cow, wait a minute, there’s an entire one other consequence taking place with my bodily actual physique right here, not simply within the app.”

So we’ve to maintain folks hooked, if you’ll, to make use of like Nir’s phrase, lengthy sufficient to see these actual world outcomes. And that’s the facility the sort of design permits.

Preston Lewis: That’s such a great level. We discuss that on a regular basis. It’s so true, as a result of even when all the things about health and consuming, it takes so lengthy to truly see outcomes, proper? To truly see that dopamine splash of progress. And as you guys are mentioning, video video games are the other, proper? You might be in Legends of Zelda or one thing, and you’ve got your little sword and also you hit the primary little chest and growth, first dopamine. After which with the ability to not solely monitor that progress, however be capable of string these little wins collectively.

I believe we’re all saying it, however that’s what we’re additionally seeing that’s essentially the most highly effective with Exergaming, as a result of even in our private lives… a member of the family, proper? I’ve loads of members of the family that know we’re within the health trade they usually’re like, “Hey, are you able to please assist me [00:24:00] out?”

And prior to now it’s been like, okay, cool. “Right here’s your vitamin plan. Right here’s what you could do each single day.” After which undoubtedly, with out fail, two weeks in, they’re like, ” I’m heavier on the size. What’s occurring?” Becasue now they’re retaining water, they usually’re like, “I quit.”

Joshua Kozak: Constructing muscle.

Yep. They usually don’t get it. And,to your guys’ level, the Exergaming aspect of that, permits us to shorten these suggestions loops and get folks hooked, to the place they appear down, possibly they’ve their abs coming in they usually’ve really created a wholesome behavior. I’m gonna take thirty extra seconds on this, as a result of I can’t assist myself. . And simply say that, our brains 200 years in the past have been used to lengthy suggestions cycles, proper? We have been farming, we plant the seeds within the Spring and we harvest within the Fall. Like, we’re used to issues taking a very long time.

Every part takes a very long time. “I’ve been trying to find every week and I haven’t caught something, as a result of I solely catch one thing as soon as each ten days. After which I get to fulfill no matter.” Proper? That’s the best way we have been programmed. However now, greater than ever, even the distinction in three to 4 years from Instagram being the primary prime canine to TikTok being the primary prime canine.

Even that’s like an on the spot gratification change, proper? It’s simply sooner, and sooner, and sooner. So the best way that we’re wiring all of our [00:25:00] brains, inadvertently, isn’t arrange for fulfillment on the subject of expectations on train.

Preston Lewis: Nice level.

Nicely, we coated loads of nice stuff at present, actually respect it. However I’d like to complete up with, the place do you suppose VR, AR health, Exergaming… the place’s it gonna go within the subsequent, three to 5 years? And what’s subsequent for you and Loodo? I believe actually, hopefully as we form of alluded to shifting previous simply rhythm video games, and shifting into extra full-fledged video games, builders are gonna begin utilizing all of the instruments that they’ve accessible to them to evolve these health VR experiences.

Joshua Kozak: After which I believe, as this, let’s name it Nice Land Seize, New Land Seize, that at all times occurs with any new know-how, each train modality will likely be represented and gamified in a roundabout way, proper?

There’s gonna be a Pilates VR recreation, there’s gonna be The Yoga, there’s gonna be The HIIT, so the person modalities will begin being represented. The sport can add worth to that modality. So I see that basically increasing.

After which once more, together with theadoption of VR, AR headsets know-how adopts, in parallel to it. And so what does that imply for Loodo? Nicely, Loodo proper now could be in clearly the [00:26:00] early studying phases and we’re attempting to grasp exactlyhow we are able to leverage these recreation mechanics that we’ve been speaking about to get folks movingwith cellular, after which increasing to AR and VR experiences. I see a chance for each of these. And once more, leaning in the direction of the house consumer, the person with restricted to no tools, simply making it the bottom barrier to entry, making it as accessible as doable. And for those who need to test it out, be taught extra, you possibly can go to GetLoodo, that’s GetLoodo.com, to affix the wait record.

Preston Lewis: Superior. That’s so nice. That’s on a regular basis we’ve, we’re slightly bit over, however such nice stuff. Actually respect you being right here. And to our viewers, as , we’ll put the URL you talked about, Josh, within the present notes, in addition to anycontact data to get in contact with Josh.Thanks once more for being right here.

Ryan DeLuca: Yep. Actually respect it. You get this in a method that I believe everyone’s gonna get it quickly, proper? Video video games, the psychology of video video games and these new applied sciences that permit us to make use of these applied sciences for health.

And, uh, be sure to get that Venmo in regards to the good phrase you stated about Black Field.

Joshua Kozak: I’ll get that over to you.

Ryan DeLuca: Yeah. Be sure that.

Joshua Kozak: It’s [00:27:00] been a pleasure, all. Thanks a lot.

Preston Lewis: Thanks a lot, Josh.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Are you aware of anybody that ought to be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t overlook to e-mail us at podcast vr health insider.com and comply with us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You too can be a part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, maintain creating and dreaming up the following huge factor that can revolutionize the world of health.